[Fontforge-users] right-to-left font

[Pocok Előd]

Hi,

I'm working a font for the Old Hungarian Rovas script. It has many common features with the Latin alphabet (eg. it has both capital and small letters, the letters aren't connected) but it's written from right to left (and there's a large number of possible ligatures, but it isn't so important now). The problem is that it isn't included yet in the Unicode, so it doesn't have an own area which includes the direction. Older Rovas fonts used the Unicode area of another RTL script (eg. Hebrew or Arabic), but it caused many problems (such as changing the keyboard language).

Could you tell me if there is a solution for changing the writing direction to RTL while using the Latin area?

Many thanks,
L. A. R.

[Pocok Előd]

That seems to be a good idea. How should these characters be placed around the text? U+202E text U+202C or U+202EU+202C text U+202EU+202C or U+202EU+202C text U+202CU+202E ? I see your sample text from right to left, but I can't reproduce it neither in Word nor in a HTML editor. Thanks, R. Attila -- Eredeti ÃŒzenet -- Feladó: Khaled Hosny <***@eglug.org> Címzett: Pocok Előd <***@indamail.hu>, <fontforge-***@lists.sourceforge.net> ElkÃŒldve: 2011. március 2. 9:52 Tárgy : Re: [Fontforge-users] right-to-left font On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 07:43:13PM +0100, Pocok Előd wrote:> Hi,> > I'm working a font for the Old Hungarian Rovas script. It has many common> features with the Latin alphabet (eg. it has both capital and small letters,> the letters aren't connected) but it's written from right to left (and there's> a large number of possible ligatures, but it isn't so important now). The> problem is that it isn't included yet in the Unicode, so it doesn't have an own> area which includes the direction. Older Rovas fonts used the Unicode area of> another RTL script (eg. Hebrew or Arabic), but it caused many problems (such as> changing the keyboard language) .> > Could you tell me if there is a solution for changing the writing direction to> RTL while using the Latin area?Not in the font itself, OpenType engines relay on character's Unicodeproperties for directionality (using Unicode BiDi algorithm). But youcan force a string of text to be RTL by surrounding it with U+202E(right to left override mark) and U+202C (pop directional formattingmark).The line below should be displayed right to left if viewed in anapplication with proper Unicode support:‮The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog‬Regards,Khaled-- Khaled HosnyEgyptianArab

[Khaled Hosny]

Should be <U+202E>text<U+202C>.

Regards,
Khaled

Post by Pocok Előd
That seems to be a good idea.
How should these characters be placed around the text?
U+202E text U+202C
or U+202EU+202C text U+202EU+202C
or U+202EU+202C text U+202CU+202E ?
I see your sample text from right to left, but I can't reproduce it neither in
Word nor in a HTML editor.
Thanks,
R. Attila
-- Eredeti üzenet --
Elküldve: 2011. március 2. 9:52
Tárgy : Re: [Fontforge-users] right-to-left font

Post by Pocok Előd
Hi,
I'm working a font for the Old Hungarian Rovas script. It has many common
features with the Latin alphabet (eg. it has both capital and small

letters,

Post by Pocok Előd
the letters aren't connected) but it's written from right to left (and

there's

Post by Pocok Előd
a large number of possible ligatures, but it isn't so important now). The
problem is that it isn't included yet in the Unicode, so it doesn't have

an own

Post by Pocok Előd
area which includes the direction. Older Rovas fonts used the Unicode

area of

Post by Pocok Előd
another RTL script (eg. Hebrew or Arabic), but it caused many problems

(such as

Post by Pocok Előd
changing the keyboard language).
Could you tell me if there is a solution for changing the writing

direction to

Post by Pocok Előd
RTL while using the Latin area?

Not in the font itself, OpenType engines relay on character's Unicode
properties for directionality (using Unicode BiDi algorithm). But you
can force a string of text to be RTL by surrounding it with U+202E
(right to left override mark) and U+202C (pop directional formatting
mark).
The line below should be displayed right to left if viewed in an
‮The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog‬
Regards,
Khaled
--
Khaled Hosny
Egyptian
Arab

[Bálint Erdősi]

Hi!

It's just an idea, but maybe you could use single substitution
to replace the Latin letters with the ones being somewhere else.
That way you can type using the normal keyboard layout at least.

Unluckily I guess there is no proper way of doing it

(On the other hand, I am rather interested in how would be
possible to handle the words like “egészség” or “ékesszóló” properly,
where the digraphs may cause a problem.
I am rather interested in your work, please contact me, if I can be of any
help for you.

Keep up the good work! / Jó munkát! ☺

Bálint

Post by Pocok Előd
Hi,
I'm working a font for the Old Hungarian Rovas script. It has many common
features with the Latin alphabet (eg. it has both capital and small letters,
the letters aren't connected) but it's written from right to left (and
there's a large number of possible ligatures, but it isn't so important
now). The problem is that it isn't included yet in the Unicode, so it
doesn't have an own area which includes the direction. Older Rovas fonts
used the Unicode area of another RTL script (eg. Hebrew or Arabic), but it
caused many problems (such as changing the keyboard language).
Could you tell me if there is a solution for changing the writing direction
to RTL while using the Latin area?
Many thanks,
L. A. R.
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Type the name of a command and press enter to execute it, or *help* for
assistance.

[Khaled Hosny]

Post by Bálint Erdősi
Hi!
It's just an idea, but maybe you could use single substitution
to replace the Latin letters with the ones being somewhere else.
That way you can type using the normal keyboard layout at least.

That wouldn't work AFAIK, since BiDi properties are for characters not
glyphs i.e. no matter what a glyph a character will end to, it will
always have it original BiDi property.

Post by Bálint Erdősi
Unluckily I guess there is no proper way of doing it…
(On the other hand, I am rather interested in how would be
possible to handle the words like “egészség” or “ékesszóló” properly,
where the digraphs may cause a problem.

'ccmp' feature is for that kind of substitution though it would be much
helpful for the problem at hand.

Regards,
Khaled

[Khaled Hosny]

Post by Pocok Előd
Hi,
I'm working a font for the Old Hungarian Rovas script. It has many common
features with the Latin alphabet (eg. it has both capital and small letters,
the letters aren't connected) but it's written from right to left (and there's
a large number of possible ligatures, but it isn't so important now). The
problem is that it isn't included yet in the Unicode, so it doesn't have an own
area which includes the direction. Older Rovas fonts used the Unicode area of
another RTL script (eg. Hebrew or Arabic), but it caused many problems (such as
changing the keyboard language).
Could you tell me if there is a solution for changing the writing direction to
RTL while using the Latin area?

Not in the font itself, OpenType engines relay on character's Unicode
properties for directionality (using Unicode BiDi algorithm). But you
can force a string of text to be RTL by surrounding it with U+202E
(right to left override mark) and U+202C (pop directional formatting
mark).

The line below should be displayed right to left if viewed in an
application with proper Unicode support:

‮The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog‬

Regards,
Khaled

[Pocok Előd]

I tried it, but the text remained left to right (despite I chose a font /Lucida Sans/ which contains these characters). Is there a special setting in MS Word which allows this text reversing? Regards, Attila -- Eredeti ÃŒzenet -- Feladó: Khaled Hosny &lt;***@eglug.org&gt; Címzett: Pocok Előd &lt;***@indamail.hu&gt;, &lt;fontforge-***@lists.sourceforge.net&gt; ElkÃŒldve: 2011. március 2. 18:55 Tárgy : Re: Re: [Fontforge-users] right-to-left font Should be &lt;U+202E&gt;text&lt;U+202C&gt;.Regards,Khaled

[Khaled Hosny]

No idea really, I don't use MS Word (except for the occasional font
test).

Post by Pocok Előd
I tried it, but the text remained left to right (despite I chose a font /Lucida
Sans/ which contains these characters). Is there a special setting in MS Word
which allows this text reversing?
Regards,
Attila
-- Eredeti üzenet --
Elküldve: 2011. március 2. 18:55
Tárgy : Re: Re: [Fontforge-users] right-to-left font
Should be <U+202E>text<U+202C>.
Regards,
Khaled

[Barry Schwartz]

It does occur to me that OpenOffice (and I presume its offshoot
LibreOffice) supports Graphite (albeit clunkily) and with Graphite one
ought to be able to make the font do practically anything. This
doesn’t solve the problem of how to implement OpenType support, but if
OT apps have to depend on Unicode and Unicode doesn’t support the
script, then a clean solution is unlikely. Graphite is designed to
avoid the problem of applications having to understand the situation.

[David J. Perry]

The problem isn't so much Unicode; Khaled's solution of surrounding t=
he text
with a left to right override and a pop directional formatting ought =
to
work. I had a similar situation with the Old Italic script, which is
strongly left to right in Unicode but which was very often used for R=
TL
writing in ancient Italy. I found that the suggested solution worked=
fine
on Mac OS X and in most browsers, but on Windows Uniscribe, the Windo=
ws
component that handles display of text, simply ignored the control
characters that I entered; that's why Word won't work for you. I don=
't know
of any solution except to ask Microsoft to update Uniscribe--or use G=
raphite=20
with OpenOffice.

David

----- Original Message -----=20
=46rom: "Barry Schwartz" <***@chemoelectric.org>
To: "Pocok El=C5=91d" <***@indamail.hu>;
<fontforge-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Fontforge-users] right-to-left font

Post by Barry Schwartz
It does occur to me that OpenOffice (and I presume its offshoot
LibreOffice) supports Graphite (albeit clunkily) and with Graphite =

one

Post by Barry Schwartz
ought to be able to make the font do practically anything. This
doesn=E2=80=99t solve the problem of how to implement OpenType supp=

ort, but if

Post by Barry Schwartz
OT apps have to depend on Unicode and Unicode doesn=E2=80=99t suppo=

rt the

Post by Barry Schwartz
script, then a clean solution is unlikely. Graphite is designed to
avoid the problem of applications having to understand the situatio=

n.

Post by Barry Schwartz
-------------------------------------------------------------------=

-----------

Post by Barry Schwartz
Free Software Download: Index, Search & Analyze Logs and other IT d=

ata in

Post by Barry Schwartz
Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast movi=

ng IT

Post by Barry Schwartz
data
generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physica=

l,

Post by Barry Schwartz
virtual
or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new busi=

ness

Post by Barry Schwartz
insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev
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Fontforge-users mailing list
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