Discussion:
[fontforge-users] Including references in kernings pairs
Ultra
2017-06-14 01:46:11 UTC
Permalink
I've tried what I can w/kerning pairs, but I've found that reference are not
effected by them. The thing is, each glyph in my font has at least 1
reference and some go up to 5. Rather than make a kerning pair for each
glyph, then go hunt down every reference and repeat would be unrealistic. Is
there a way to fold all references into a single kerning pair? I understand
there are these "kerning by classes", but I don't really understand that.
Besides, FF seems to be pretty unstable if I do unexpected things w/the
kerning.



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Dave Crossland
2017-06-14 13:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Gpos class based kerning
Post by Ultra
I've tried what I can w/kerning pairs, but I've found that reference are not
effected by them. The thing is, each glyph in my font has at least 1
reference and some go up to 5. Rather than make a kerning pair for each
glyph, then go hunt down every reference and repeat would be unrealistic. Is
there a way to fold all references into a single kerning pair? I understand
there are these "kerning by classes", but I don't really understand that.
Besides, FF seems to be pretty unstable if I do unexpected things w/the
kerning.
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Ultra
2017-06-14 13:35:48 UTC
Permalink
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.



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Dave Crossland
2017-06-14 15:58:03 UTC
Permalink
It is a tricky problem, I am not aware of any libre software that empowers
people to develop kerning; I hope in future a metapolator or trufont
feature will be written by someone who needs to solve the problem and has
the skills to do it :)
Post by Ultra
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
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Cheers
Dave
Martin B. Brilliant
2017-06-14 20:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ultra
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and understand.
I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.

First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space to find glyphs later.

Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get back to where you left off.)

Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).

<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.

Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.

Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add Subtable button. You can OK the default name.

Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern references along with the originals, choose classes.

Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason to try different values.

You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can select only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the same time, Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with different alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin, Greek, Cyrillic….).

When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.

If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your work when something screwy happens.

The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element, Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click the subtable.

I hope this works for you.
Jason Pagura
2017-06-14 23:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for writing all that out, Martin. I've been using Fontforge for
over a decade and kerning had always perplexed me. The method you wrote
here is non-intiutive, not least for not beginning with something in the
Metrics menu like a sane user would expect. Now that I see it like this it
makes sense. From a UI/UX standpoint I still think it's broken, but I know
how to make it work now.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Martin B. Brilliant <
Post by Ultra
Post by Ultra
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and
understand.
I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe
that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.
First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space to
find glyphs later.
Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get
back to where you left off.)
Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).
<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select
Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.
Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.
Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add
Subtable button. You can OK the default name.
Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual
kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern
references along with the originals, choose classes.
Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected
glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason
to try different values.
You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can select
only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the same time,
Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with different
alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin, Greek,
Cyrillic
.).
When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on
top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the
matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can
adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.
If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then
double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t
see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without
trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your
work when something screwy happens.
The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to
make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I
want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try
it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element,
Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click
the subtable.
I hope this works for you.
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Dave Crossland
2017-06-15 01:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi

Yes, thank you Martin, this was great!

I added this info to the FF Manual :)

https://github.com/fontforge/designwithfontforge.com/pull/163
Post by Jason Pagura
Thank you for writing all that out, Martin. I've been using Fontforge for
here is non-intiutive, not least for not beginning with something in the
Metrics menu like a sane user would expect. Now that I see it like this it
makes sense. From a UI/UX standpoint I still think it's broken, but I know
how to make it work now.
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Martin B. Brilliant <
Post by Ultra
Post by Ultra
So what do I do? I find the kerning features difficult to use and
understand.
I don’t find the kerning features difficult to use and understand. Maybe
that’s because I don’t use the metrics window or the metrics menu.
First, Encoding / Compact so I won’t have to search through empty space
to find glyphs later.
Element / Font Info / Lookups, GPOS tab. (You can do this any time to get
back to where you left off.)
Hit the Add Lookup button. Choose Type: Pair Position (kerning).
<New>, don’t click <New>, click the down arrow next to it and select
Horizontal Kerning. <New> changes to Kern.
Accept the default Lookup Name or change it if you wish. Hit the OK button.
Back in the GPOS tab, you now have a lookup table selected. Hit the Add
Subtable button. You can OK the default name.
Now you have a window with a lot of choices. The first is Use individual
kerning pairs vs. Use a matrix of kerning classes. If you want to kern
references along with the originals, choose classes.
Leave the checkmark on Fontforge will guess kerning classes for selected
glyphs. Leave the rest of the parameters as they are until you have reason
to try different values.
You can select all the glyphs, and delete classes later, or you can
select only the glyphs you want to kern, but select all you want at the
same time, Fontforge will put them in classes—unless you’re working with
different alphabets that you don’t want to kern together (like Latin,
Greek, Cyrillic
.).
When you hit the OK button you get a big window with some parameters on
top, two lists of classes, and a matrix below. When you select a box in the
matrix you can see how the pair is kerned. If you don’t like it you can
adjust the Kern Offset in the box above the display of the glyph pair.
If anything screwy happens, and it will, hit the Cancel button. Then
double-click the subtable (hit the plus sign next to the table if you don’t
see it) and you’re back in the big window. If you do a lot of work without
trouble it’s a good idea to hit OK and come back, so you don’t lose your
work when something screwy happens.
The metrics window can be used later as a final check but I don’t like to
make adjustments in that window. It can be done but it keeps asking if I
want to kern the class or the pair and picky stuff like that. You can try
it and see if you like it; I don’t. I do all my kerning as above: Element,
Font Info, Lookups, GPOS tab, expand by hitting the plus sign, double-click
the subtable.
I hope this works for you.
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Jason Pagura
zimbach at gmail dot com
------------------------------------------------------------
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Cheers
Dave
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